We need to talk about Black Widow...again
Jul. 30th, 2015 11:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rainwatersparkI still haven't watched Avengers: Age of Ultron yet, but I've finally heard the full context of the Black Widow "sterilization = monster" quote, and I'm copying it here, for future reference, because now that I've heard the whole thing I just...I really don't see how it's defensible.
"In the Red Room, where I was trained, where I was raised...they have a graduation ceremony. They sterilize you. It's efficient, one less thing to worry about. The one thing that might matter more than a mission. It makes everything easier, even killing. You still think you're the only monster on the team?"
#1: The line saying sterilization makes it easier to kill is explicit. There is no other way to read that line. And I'd hope everyone can agree that equating inability to have children with an easier time killing is complete and utter crap. It is explicitly equating an inability to have children with an inability to have empathy and "normal human" emotion, which is a huge insult to everyone out there who is infertile or who just doesn't want to have children, and which has no sound basis in fact.
#2: From a logical standpoint, THIS DOESN'T MAKE ANY FREAKING SENSE. Having a child is "the ONE thing that might matter more than a mission"???? Not even a romantic partnership or close friendship would matter more than a mission?? For crying out loud, the idea of romantic relationships compromising peoples' abilities to carry out assassin/spy missions is the oldest cliché in the book; why in the world would that not occur to the Red Room????
Also...women can choose to get abortions???? Or use birth control???? It's not like the ONLY WAY to prevent women from having children is sterilization??? (On the flip side, women can choose to adopt children?? It's not like being biologically unable to have children would prevent women from being a mother if they really wanted to be???) Also, some women—hold on, this might shock you—do NOT WANT to get pregnant?????
I mean, it's one thing if the Red Room is meant to be portrayed as some ignorant sexist organization and is criticized for having these nonsensical misogynistic ideas...but as far as I've heard, Age of Ultron doesn't do that.
#3: I don't get it. I've mentally bent over backwards trying to read the "monster" line as not referring to sterilization. At best, the "monster" line refers to the fact that sterilization makes killing easier (which, as I said above, is 50 shades of screwed-up), but even then it's referring to the fact that she has killed AND the fact that she was sterilized.
That's the most charitable reading that's reasonably possible, and I don't even think it's the most intuitive reading, because the entire focus of Natasha's dialogue is the sterilization (everything after "They sterilize you"—whenever she says "it" and "thing"—refers back to that sentence), therefore it would make the most sense that the "monster" line refers to the sterilization as well.
To read "monster" as only referring to "killing" would mean cutting that sentence in half and disregarding the first half and everything else Natasha says before, as though monstrosity can only be associated with killing and not with sterilization, and I just don't see how that reading is reasonable. Take this sentence, for example: "I love pasta. Pasta is delicious in every shape it comes in. When you cook it al dente, it melts in your mouth. It tastes great, especially with tomato sauce. It's the best thing ever, you know?" Theoretically speaking, you could say the last sentence refers to "tomato sauce" and not "pasta," but...who would understand it that way?
To put it another way: Assume Joss Whedon really did intend for the "monster" line to refer only to the fact that Natasha killed people. If that's the case, why have her talk about sterilization at all, and at such length? Why not have her say something like,
"The Red Room trained me to be an assassin. I killed people...men, women, children. You still think you're the only monster on the team?"
???
I could go on, but my point is, semantically speaking, Natasha's dialogue is problematic, period.
And if someone wants to claim I'm taking this line of dialogue "out of context," the entire scene preceding this is about Bruce telling Natasha they can't be together solely because he can't have kids (which is the worst reason ever not to have a relationship when Natasha never even said she wanted kids and is so procreation-normative I can't even), and the scene ends basically right after Natasha finishes speaking. You want context? The whole freaking context of the scene is about being able to have children.
"In the Red Room, where I was trained, where I was raised...they have a graduation ceremony. They sterilize you. It's efficient, one less thing to worry about. The one thing that might matter more than a mission. It makes everything easier, even killing. You still think you're the only monster on the team?"
#1: The line saying sterilization makes it easier to kill is explicit. There is no other way to read that line. And I'd hope everyone can agree that equating inability to have children with an easier time killing is complete and utter crap. It is explicitly equating an inability to have children with an inability to have empathy and "normal human" emotion, which is a huge insult to everyone out there who is infertile or who just doesn't want to have children, and which has no sound basis in fact.
#2: From a logical standpoint, THIS DOESN'T MAKE ANY FREAKING SENSE. Having a child is "the ONE thing that might matter more than a mission"???? Not even a romantic partnership or close friendship would matter more than a mission?? For crying out loud, the idea of romantic relationships compromising peoples' abilities to carry out assassin/spy missions is the oldest cliché in the book; why in the world would that not occur to the Red Room????
Also...women can choose to get abortions???? Or use birth control???? It's not like the ONLY WAY to prevent women from having children is sterilization??? (On the flip side, women can choose to adopt children?? It's not like being biologically unable to have children would prevent women from being a mother if they really wanted to be???) Also, some women—hold on, this might shock you—do NOT WANT to get pregnant?????
I mean, it's one thing if the Red Room is meant to be portrayed as some ignorant sexist organization and is criticized for having these nonsensical misogynistic ideas...but as far as I've heard, Age of Ultron doesn't do that.
#3: I don't get it. I've mentally bent over backwards trying to read the "monster" line as not referring to sterilization. At best, the "monster" line refers to the fact that sterilization makes killing easier (which, as I said above, is 50 shades of screwed-up), but even then it's referring to the fact that she has killed AND the fact that she was sterilized.
That's the most charitable reading that's reasonably possible, and I don't even think it's the most intuitive reading, because the entire focus of Natasha's dialogue is the sterilization (everything after "They sterilize you"—whenever she says "it" and "thing"—refers back to that sentence), therefore it would make the most sense that the "monster" line refers to the sterilization as well.
To read "monster" as only referring to "killing" would mean cutting that sentence in half and disregarding the first half and everything else Natasha says before, as though monstrosity can only be associated with killing and not with sterilization, and I just don't see how that reading is reasonable. Take this sentence, for example: "I love pasta. Pasta is delicious in every shape it comes in. When you cook it al dente, it melts in your mouth. It tastes great, especially with tomato sauce. It's the best thing ever, you know?" Theoretically speaking, you could say the last sentence refers to "tomato sauce" and not "pasta," but...who would understand it that way?
To put it another way: Assume Joss Whedon really did intend for the "monster" line to refer only to the fact that Natasha killed people. If that's the case, why have her talk about sterilization at all, and at such length? Why not have her say something like,
"The Red Room trained me to be an assassin. I killed people...men, women, children. You still think you're the only monster on the team?"
???
I could go on, but my point is, semantically speaking, Natasha's dialogue is problematic, period.
And if someone wants to claim I'm taking this line of dialogue "out of context," the entire scene preceding this is about Bruce telling Natasha they can't be together solely because he can't have kids (which is the worst reason ever not to have a relationship when Natasha never even said she wanted kids and is so procreation-normative I can't even), and the scene ends basically right after Natasha finishes speaking. You want context? The whole freaking context of the scene is about being able to have children.
